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  • historicalzg - 1Reply
    studiolymar wrote on May 21, '10
    Well kept pictures in very good condition
    tnx for sharing
    Maurice

    kittyinva wrote on May 21, '10
    I have wondered about his for so long! Thanks so much for your research and for posting these. Like you, I began to think they were all just on an outing, but I had the feeling it HAD to be for publicity. The catch was, not all were in the same shows at the same time. Now it makes sense. Now what the heck did I say about Consuelo Baily??!! Kathie

    ziegfeldgrrl wrote on May 21, '10
    Ahahaha, we had a long back and forth about Consuelo being in the 'C' folder when you couldn't find her in any Ziegfeld shows on ibdb. I said I had added her as a 'maybe' and on and on and why's and wherefores.... my babbling probably droned out the name for you :smile:

    I said it would be a good time to finally post john's car pics and it was! The perfect time!

    It's still possible that some not yet known to be in ZF will turn up in a Midnight Frolic program or in a mag or news in some ZF show. I was so glad I so easily found the news story when I looked so that I could finally get that out of the recesses of my brain cell.

    Glad you enjoyed these and keep asking questions :smile:

    kittyinva wrote on May 25, '10
    I think I remember seeing Beatrice Allen posed in this hideous outfit from previous pics. They must have come from this event. Meow - okay I sound like a cat! But it really is nasty and does nothing for her! Kathie

    ziegfeldgrrl wrote on May 25, '10
    kittyinva said
    I think I remember seeing Beatrice Allen posed in this hideous outfit from previous pics.
    Hahaha! But the hat is terrific, Kathie!!! I could never wear any kind of hat but my daughter could put a bag on top of her head and it would look fabulous. Will see if I have the others of Beatrice.

    jane, who has meow'd a bit in her lifetime :smile:

    kittyinva wrote on May 25, '10
    Beatrice's outfit was actually very high style for 1917. But as we all know, high style is not always flattering to a woman. And notice the fur trim - in JUNE, Beatrice?!!! The others look cool and appropriate. Still, they did have "summer" furs, but I believe Bea's outfit is actually a winter/fall ensemble. Maybe it was the most fashionalbe thing she had. I just love to wonder about things like that. Given that Marcelle Earle was paid around $75.00 a week (in 1917), and others from $35.00-$50.00, it was not easy for a "glamorous" Ziegfeld Girl to dress like the rich ladies in the front row. Then as now French couture was thousands of dollars. You could get American copies by good dressmakers like Madame Frances for hundreds rather than thousands, but that still is above the means of most people. Anita Loos went there once she started making $1,000.00 a week. Some of the Bendel ads show velvet wraps up to $375.00. Marcelle was desperate to own her own home, so she made a dress for around a dollar, and wore it all summer one year. (I think she had two dresses, total at that time.) Of course, she was scrimping and saving every cent, but rents for a decent (heat, hot running water, okay neighborhood) three-room apartment could be around $35-50 a month. It's no wonder some, like Peggy Joyce, who wanted the jewels and furs, turned to male "friends" to provide. Anyway, like I say, it's fun to wonder about the personality behind the pretty face, isn't it? But Jane - really - that hat?! (I'm grinning as I write this!) I just can't bring myself to like those 1917&18 things that look like propellers on top of heads! Kathie

    ziegfeldgrrl wrote on May 25, '10
    Thanks so much, Kathie! Wow, you and my daughter would be able to talk for hours about fashions of the era! She was strictly a '20s girl but has expanded to earlier now that she's a bit older. Was on costuming boards and such for awhile and dresses the part :smile:

    That hat!!! The wilder the better I say hahaha!

    Really appreciate all you bring to the sites, Kathie.

    ziegfeldgrrl wrote on May 25, '10, edited on May 25, '10
    A little babbling... still on my first cup of coffee (I know, it's almost 1:30pm but was so tired I didn't want to get out of bed :smile:...

    I have no idea what has gotten me so fond of costumes, outfits, hair, shoes! I have never cared one bit when it comes to myself, what I wore or didn't wear and I absolutely hate shoes to this day. One pair of Doc Marten motorcycle boots and one pair of Doc Marten oxfords last me a lifetime. I go barefoot unless I have to go out.

    But over the past few years I could look at shoes all day long lol! Shoe fetishes run in my family but thankfully skipped me. When my sister and me were just 5 and 6 or so and my father would show the photo slides of us on the 'screen' my sister would always say "Daddy! Go back to the last one! I didn't see what shoes I was wearing!' and I would groan.

    My daughter has so many pairs of shoes and boots that she has probably surpassed Imelda Marcos in her collecting!

    I don't get it but it's odd that I am suddenly taken by fashion these past few years.

    kittyinva wrote on May 25, '10
    But the fashions, shoes included, of this period are so charming! Who wouldn't be interested! Kathie

    ziegfeldgrrl wrote on May 26, '10
    Very true, Kathie! And I did remember that in my early teens I was a fashion victim :smile: The 'Mod Girl,' the Twiggy look-alike, etc. And then the hippie 'costumes' :smile:

    It's too bad there aren't more venues for dressing in period fashions. Some cities, like SF, have the teas and other places have little soirees but of course nothing here in cow town. When the restored movie theatre opened here they showed silent films for the grand re-opening. My daughter dressed to the nines in her '20s finery, did her hair and makeup to the period, and got looked at like she was a freak :smile:

    Dressing used to be great fun but no-one seems to dress for anything anymore. Even at the bigger shows here everyone is in shorts and flip-flops. Everything, no matter what, has turned 'casual dress.'

    kittyinva wrote on May 26, '10
    I live in a small town outside of DC. It never ceases to amaze me how shabbily people dress, even to go to the theatre - the BIG ones - Kenndy Center, Arena Stage, The Shakespeare Theatre. Not everyone, of course, but there's always some - pardon the expression - dumb ass in gimme-cap, jeans and tee shirt! I mean, the tickets cost around $50.00 bucks, and it's not something we can do very often, but if you can afford the tickets....I'm forever glad we don't wear girdles, white gloves and stockings, but there must be something in between! How did our grandmothers survive menopause - sorry guys - with no air conditioner, wearing underwear, then girdle, bra, slip and/or petticoats, stockings, dress, white gloves and hats? I would have just killed myself! Now here's a relavant anecdote for our period: My great-grandmother was still living in the early sixties (in her eighties) when I was very little, and it was her custom (and apparently the custom of women of her time) to get up with the crack of dawn. You did your housework in the same dress you wore in the afternoon of the day before. You cooked as much as you could before it got too hot. When all chores were done, hopefully by 11:00 or 12:00, you took your cool bath and changed into a fresh dress for the rest of the day. Then that dress was the one you used tomorrow morning, etc. Kathie

    ziegfeldgrrl wrote on May 26, '10
    Exactly, Kathie! When my daughter and her fiance went to the theatre (some huge show at a venue like those you mentioned) during the big Arts & Crafts show (not arts and crafts like hobby stuff, you know what I mean :smile: at the Smithsonian in Washington DC years back she had him wear a jacket and dress pants. He told me later that he felt like an idiot because everyone there was in jeans and tees. She was dressed in period of course. She was furious that no-one dressed for such a show.

    My lovely Aunt M (actually my great aunt) was like your great-grandmother in that she also got up at the crack of dawn, did all of her work and then bathed and changed. I still remember and miss so much her fantastic apartment in a brownstone in Harlem. Pure 1920s with a fabulously huge kitchen and a dumb-waiter. The neighborhood was Polish then and there was a lovely church, St. Adalbert's, which had been built by Polish artisans. It was gorgeous really and I wonder if it is still there now... In that neighborhood of brownstones with the wide streets and the trees I always imagined people strolling as they had in years gone by. It was a sad day for me when she sold her wonderful furniture to the junkman (!) and moved to a new apartment building closer to us. I'll never forget polishing that beautiful art deco mahogany furniture with the blue mirrors on top.

    Miss you Aunt M!

    kittyinva wrote on May 25, '10
    Thanks Jane. My daughter and I are going to NYC this summer to see some fabulous costume exhibits at the Met and the Brooklyn Museum. If you don't subscribe to Victoriana Magazine on line, you should! I covers through the 1920's, and I often get information about museum events that I wouldn't know about otherwise. Both of these exhibits are of women's clothing from Victorian through 20's. The Met just acquired all Brooklyn's costume collection because they couldn't afford to keep it up any more. So they are both doing shows, with the Met curating the items. Some have never been seen by the public, and some not for 20 and 30 years. I went to two shows at the Met and Brooklyn 20 years ago, and it was one of the best times of my life. Maybe you and your daughter will have a chance to check it all out. The shows run through August, I believe. Victoriana Mag on line has all the info. I hope others here will find this helpful, too! Kathie

    kittyinva wrote on May 26, '10
    OMG (I like to sound younger than I am - not really!), but she sold her Art Deco furniture to a junk man. Oh God, what that would bring now. Don't you wish you could just go back in time for a few days and really experience it? But just for a few days. The medical issues would be too difficult to stay longer than a month or so! I'd choose NYC and see as many shows as possible. I'd want to shop at all the best places, go to movies at the big movie houses. Maybe 1919, before Prohibition, so the Frolic would be on, and you could still eat at Sherry's and the other big Edwardian restaurants that didn't last once they could no longer serve alcohol. But then there's the fun of going to a speakeasy....so many dreams. The closest I ever get is when I read Scott Fitzgerald. Bernice Bobs Her Hair, and F. Scott Fitzgerald and The Last of the Belles are both wonderful TV adaptations of his short stories - oh, and Under the Biltmore, too. I forget which short story it was based on, but they changed the title and it won't come to me. Obviously The Great Gatsby. But reading them is even more layered and emotional. Love me my Scott! Kathie
    ziegfeldgrrl
    edit delete reply

    Ah, off on a trip down memory lane... I always go back to my Auntie :smile:

    Thanks for sharing your memories of your great grandmother, Kathie!
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